Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/23/1999 03:08 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL
SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 23, 1999
3:08 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Fred Dyson, Co-Chair
Representative John Coghill, Co-Chair
Representative Jim Whitaker
Representative Joe Green
Representative Carl Morgan
Representative Tom Brice
Representative Allen Kemplen
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 5
"An Act relating to vouchers for education; and providing for an
effective date."
- WAIVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 5
SHORT TITLE: VOUCHER SYSTEM FOR EDUCATION
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) KOHRING, Coghill
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/19/99 19 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/8/99
1/19/99 19 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
1/19/99 19 (H) HES, FINANCE
2/05/99 147 (H) COSPONSOR(S): COGHILL
2/10/99 184 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE
INTRODUCED-REFERRALS
2/10/99 184 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/10/99 184 (H) HES, FINANCE
2/16/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
2/16/99 (H) HEARD AND HELD
2/23/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
No witnesses testified
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-11, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIR DYSON called the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:08 p.m. Members
present at the call to order were Representatives Dyson, Coghill,
Green, Morgan and Kemplen. Representatives Whitaker and Brice
joined the meeting at 3:10 p.m.
HB 5 - VOUCHER SYSTEM FOR EDUCATION
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON introduced the first order of business as Sponsor
Substitute for House Bill No. 5, "An Act relating to vouchers for
education; and providing for an effective date." There were no
objections to hearing SSHB 5 before the Association of Alaska
School Board report. The opinion from the Office of the Attorney
General had just been received a few hours ago.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said while the Health, Education and Social
Services (HES) Committee is not a judiciary body, he recommended
that the chairman of the Judiciary Committee request this bill to
hear testimony on its legality.
Number 0330
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to move SSHB 5 from committee
with individual recommendations on the premise that the Judiciary
Committee hear it.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said there needs to be educational
accountability established in SSHB 5, otherwise they would be
remiss in any type of action outside of the constitutional issue.
He asked when the committee would have a mark up on this piece of
legislation.
Number 0450
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN added beyond the issue of the
constitutionality, there are substantive weaknesses which must be
addressed before this committee allows it to leave.
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked whether there will be an opportunity
to offer amendments.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said it is in order to say the motion on the
floor should be defeated because there are members of the committee
who want to make some amendments.
Number 0525
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said if there is a desire to mark up the bill
to offer amendments, he would withdraw his motion.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said if the bill is not going to be found
constitutional, there is no point in discussing the educational
issues. He recommended that the HES Committee refer it to the
Judiciary Committee to see if it is constitutional. If it is, then
they would refer it back to the HES Committee to deal with the
educational issues.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE wanted to be sure that the bill would be
brought back to the HES Committee before it proceeds to the Finance
Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER agreed with that.
Number 0632
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked whether it is necessary to refer it to
another committee when there are two legal opinions, one from the
legislative branch and one from the executive branch, which state
the proposed piece of legislation is unconstitutional. It seems to
him that the HES Committee has the ability to assess whether those
opinions are significant obstacles to moving the bill forward.
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN further stated he feels the process of
moving a bill out of this committee before the issues have been
dealt with is not a good precedent to establish at the beginning of
the 21st Legislature. He thinks the committee should shoulder
their responsibility to address the issues, do the work that needs
to be done and not rely upon other legislators and committees to
pick up the load. He said he felt this piece of legislation seemed
to be the legitimate work of the HES committee. Before it moves
out, they should be satisfied that it addresses the issues of
constitutionality and accountability. He cautioned the committee
against moving this forward until it has been worked to a
comfortable level.
Number 0793
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said legality is an issue of the Judiciary
Committee, not of the HES Committee. He said it didn't make sense
to try to fix the educational issues and then find out the
legislation is not constitutional.
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if they would be assured of getting
SSHB 5 back from the Judiciary Committee to deal with it from a HES
perspective.
Number 0879
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that precedent has already been
established in the Senate where bills actually will return to
committees with request.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said the process for receiving a formal
referral on the floor of the House is that the chairman of the
Judiciary Committee would request the legislation be sent to his
committee and the speaker would add another referral on the floor.
He added that by taking this to the House floor to get a judiciary
referral, instead of the HES Committee just referring it to the
Judiciary Committee, that would add some confidence to the people
who would wonder if there is something spurious here.
Number 1047
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN moved that the HES committee hold SSHB 5
until such time as the chair of the Judiciary Committee has an
opportunity to approach the speaker requesting an additional
referral to the Judiciary Committee.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON objected to the motion.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE added an amendment that after the Judiciary
Committee looks at it, they will refer it back to the HES
Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN agreed with the amendment.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON said he is going to vote against this motion. If
it fails, he will support a motion to vote it out of committee to
the Judiciary Committee; if they pass it, it will come back to the
HES Committee. It will accomplish the same result but it would be
the result of this committee's action and not the result of the
Judiciary Committee chairman's request.
Number 1220
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN restated that he moves that the HES
Committee defer action on SSHB 5 until there is an opportunity for
it to be referred by the speaker of the House to the Judiciary
Committee with a follow up referral, if it passes the Judiciary
Committee, it will come back to the HES Committee.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Green, Morgan, Kemplen
and Brice voted in favor of the motion. Representatives Whitaker,
Dyson and Coghill voted against it. The motion passed, therefore
SSHB 5 will be referred to the Judiciary Committee through the
House floor with a follow up referral back to the HES Committee.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON called an at-ease at 3:34 p.m. in order to hear
the Association of Alaska School Boards (AASB) Report. [The
minutes for the AASB Report are found in the 3:40 p.m. cover sheet
for the same date.]
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